Tyre Report.....Heidenau K60 Tyres on R1200GS

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Neil Terry's picture
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Sorry for the delay in this, the feedback about these Heidenau Tyres on my 1200GS, I've been a little strained time wise. Size of tyres fitted: Front - 100/90/19...(standard tyre is 110/80/19) Rear - 140/80/17...(standard tyre is 150/70/17) Velocity ratings are similar/the same i.e. no safety compromised. The cost was +- R2100 delivered in C.T. for both front and rear. Now about the tyres on the road. I have to date done about +2500km on them, on both tar and dirt, in the ratio +-60/40% On tar I've ridden up to +180kph for an extended period with sweeping bends included and experienced no front end weave...pressures: front +-2.3bar, rear +-2.5bar On the whole, as happy with them as with TKC 80's. I haven't had them in the wet, so??? They are fairly noisy and the front is quite vibey(in comparison to a dual tyre), BUT it is a knobbly tyre, and the vibrations/noise are on par/a little less than the TKC's. On dirt I rode them at +-1.6bar and was most happy. They gave a smoother ride, which I'm sure is due to the very strong side walls, and higher profile which they have.The fact that they are a bit narrower was NOT a noticeable difference to me. I chose the more difficult lines, i.e. the loosest patches, ruts, muddy sections, to try them in. All round very, very happy with their performance. This past weekend I did the West Coast Trip with them, they were fine in the sand at 1.2bar and with their side walls, on harder gravel I didn't feel the need to inflate them again. Their overall performance in sand....more then satisfying. Were I to chose between these and TKC's, for a trip, I would chose the Heidies. In fact, I would probably settle on two tyres for my bike...Bridgestone Battlewing for road use, and the Heidies for dirt. Lifespan: Vs the TKC I expect double or treble, probably 7000 or more kms on the rear, at half the price :-) :-) The only negative I had with the Heidies was that they were more than an absolute B to fit, I have never in my life struggled so to seat the bead, but with their strong sidewalls I ought never to have to break/re-seat the bead in the veld. Remember practice and skill are far more important than tyres, but these are really good for the task, with a considerable cost saving!!!!:-):-) I bought them through Bikegear tel: 041 466 6835 e-mail: info@bikegear.co.za I'll add pics soon. Rear HeidiRear Heidi Set of 2x rear ,1x frontSet of 2x rear ,1x front Another veiw rearAnother veiw rear
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Joined: 2008/07/15
Hi Neil Very good report. Do you (or any body else) possibly know why so many people are now "importing" their own tires ?? Why are there so few options available in the local shops ?? ALSO why are the local tire SO MUCH more expensive than up-country ??? :(
Charles Oertel's picture
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Joined: 2007/04/14
Hi Neil Thanks for the report. I have been riding a Heidi back tyre for a few weeks now, and I must agree with your findings on dirt - the tyre is excellent. I rode off-road with pillion and was most impressed. As you say, at least as good as the TKC80, but much more cost-effective. On tar, I have noticed a slight change in the angle of the bike going around sharp curves. Nothing wrong - just different. I have done some heavy leaning around on/off-ramps and found the handling solid and predictable. But then, you only know what's enough when you discover what's more than enough! Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

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Neil Terry's picture
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Last first, thanks guys, I hope I managed to give a fair report on them. On tar I have had very few twisties to date but this weekend had Allan Veich trying :-) to out-run me with Tourances, well he tried....:-) I did ride away from Jane in Tradouws Pass on the way back from the Annual Tour, but I was still wary....(not a sponsored tyre tester bike),so was restrained. I can't say I noticed the quicker turn as I was ALL feel for the road. Padlangs this and Maxxis are the only other tyre importer I'm aware of, other than Michelin, Perelli,Metzler,Bridgestone and Continental. As to prices, reading on Wilddogs, high prices/greed??? it is not provincial. Harold at Bikegear is a refreshing change, good luck to them!!!!
Jaco's picture
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Joined: 2007/06/21
How does the the thinner and higher profile look once fitted on a "fat" bike like a GS? Regards
Charles Oertel's picture
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Joined: 2007/04/14
It looks fine - if you didn't know the tyre is not exactly the right profile you would not be able to see the difference. BTW.: I popped in to Motorlease Biketique (where Freak is now) at Constantiaberg Motors in Diep River this morning. They liked the Heidenau on my bike so much they are planning to supply them in the Western Cape. They are also offering a discount to club members - so here is your opportunity!

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Joined: 2008/03/15
What kinda discount we talking about and when will the supply line be operational?
Neil Terry's picture
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Joined: 2007/07/01
Jaco hi, although I have pink/ violet tappet covers I 'm not too fasion conscious regarding my tyres! THEY WORK!!!!:-)
Charles Oertel's picture
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We'll let you know. When I left Freak was phoning Bike Gear, and his boss Ray still needs to hash out the details. But the principles are good and worth supporting...

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Cloudgazer Steven's picture
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Joined: 2007/10/03
Excellent news. I need new tyres.
There are so many problems in this world. Luckily there's a wristband available for almost all of them.
mr.stripes's picture
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Joined: 2008/10/22

I know I'm reviving an ancient thread, but...

I noticed the knobs on my rear K60 are pulling off, as in that tyre will have to be replaced today!

[edit: spoke to the mechanic guy, and he reckons I should just keep riding on those tyres.. says to keep an eye on the tyre, if it actually rips off, do something about it, but for now, just watch! even if the knob pulls off entirely, it shouldnt cause a tyre failure. I think I'll still look at buying a new one..]

To be fair, these tyres have been on the bike since early June 2010, and have done around or in excess  of 10 000 kms.. AND I rode pretty hard getting home on Sunday (had to be in Somerset West by 18:30, left Citrusdal at 16:25, and made it in time!).

Bummer that the rest of the tyre looks good to go for a long while yet!

What I notice about the tears is that they're clean, ie the tear only happened on tar, not in Biedouw valley on the weekend. For the first time ever, I let the tyres down to 1.8 rear, 1.5 front for the weekend, and then used the weirdest air pump ever in ClanWilliam to pump them up to 2.5 on the way out. The pump refused to work for Neville's bike, but the guy 'said' it had worked for mine and Conlan's. Now that this happened, I wonder if that tyre pump thingummy actually did work?

So I'm in the market for a new rear tyre.

The E-07 I have on the front (fitted at the same time) is looking good! See bottom. So I'm thinking of fitting one of those on the rear (since they all come out the same factory anyway)

Heidi K60 - tear 1Heidi K60 - tear 1

Heidi K60 - tear 2Heidi K60 - tear 2

As you can see it's happening to a whole lot of them.

(Yeah, the gumminess on the tyre is chain oil - sprayed the stuff on in the dark, since I'd forgotten to spray any on before the weekend and was feeling guilty.. missed the chain and got the tyre! Oops!)

Mitas E-07 fitted on front (fitted at same time!)

E-07 frontE-07 front

mr.stripes

Weedkiller - Adie's picture
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Joined: 2011/06/03

hi

These pumps are actually verry accurate and easy to use.  They sense the pressure in the tyre and 'top it up' to the preset value.  Some of them will NOT DO anything if the pressure in the tyre is within the tolerance to start inflating.  What we do is to actually deflate the tyre a bit and then connect the hose to 'get outside' the start tolerance.

Adie

mr.stripes's picture
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Joined: 2008/10/22

Ah so you deflate the tyre in order to pump up the tyre...???

well, deflate or not, if I had ridden 200kms at 140km/h + on a soft tyre, it might explain why the knobbly is coming off. I didn't know one has to let it down to pump it up.. take Shell to come up with an idea that not even Africa-wisdom would have thought of..

It's a darn silly idea.. especially in a plek like Clanwilliam of all places..

mr.stripes

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Joined: 2009/09/28

Hi Tony

 

Just as a matter if interest pop in and have a look at the 'new' tread pattern on the 140's- now the same as the scout 150............

Graham Johnson

Biketique

Goose's picture
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Joined: 2008/10/22

Just some info... had 11 000km's on my Heidie's when the bike was sold. The tyres were supplied by Biketique - but I must admit that we rode the tyres inflated to 2.4 & 2.9 respectively... tar, sand & dirt.

Never had the knobs pull off. The Heidies have very strong/hard sidewalls and in my opinion, the cracks are due to them being under inflated + the hard tar riding, which would heat them up tremendously.

Exactly same complaint with one or two riders here in the UK... both were found to be under inflated and after hard tar riding.

I for one will definitely use the K60's again....  phenomenal tyre !

mr.stripes's picture
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100% agree..

Awesome tyre both dirt and tar (heck they allow me to scrape pegs and knees on tar and be amper ok on sand!).

I think the problem was definitely the under-inflation, from not understanding that stupid (yes, stupid!) pump that doesn't do anything if it thinks there's a narrow margin. Maybe bike tyres are different, or hard side walls are different, but I wanted it to go up to 2.5 from 1.8 and nothing happened, cos the pump chappie also said that the tyres must already be hard enough.

I normally ride 2.5 - 3.0 bar both.

I've had a look at the new K60 tread pattern, and to be honest I don't need yet another reason to slide right thru a traffic light - I'm good enough at that already. I can understand their reasoning to strengthen the tyre but that centre ridge with zero tread on it is just inviting a calamity. Especially as it is dead centre, right there where I will be riding as I approach traffic lights and all that lovely road paint stuff, especially with hard tyres.

If I can source another K60 with the old tread pattern, like the one I've had on, I'll go for that, else it's the E-07 from MITAS. The price is virtually the same, give or take a single platter from ocean basket.

 

mr.stripes

Neil Terry's picture
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Joined: 2007/07/01

 Ladies and gents, all which I posted back then, no longer has any validity, as the latest  incarnation of these tyres is, a different compound, and tread pattern.

On tar the solid centre can make a huge difference,and most noticeably in the wet. I always had reservations about pushing them hard on tar, admittedly most of this was in my own head, but I had a lot more faith in the TKC 80's in the wet or dry.

 The other thing to consider when reading a review is the reviewer,... how does he/she ride?

A tyre reviewer who rides like a granny most of the time has Not really tested the tyre.

Geoff said about the  latest incarnation of these tyres  on the "Tyre Bargain" thread: i quote:

"My experience with the "new" Heidi as a rear is that it has given very good service on and off road for 13000kms and still has about 3000kms before it is completely finished.

My only warning is that from about 5000kms they become worse and worse in wet tar conditions...........darn right scary in fact as they get more mileage on them!

But one can still hammer them on dry tar and they have never given me any scary moments. One must just remember that they are off road knobbly type tyres so you need to be mindful of entering corners to fast under braking and be a bit gentle on the gas as you exit them. No need to pussy-foot around but just be careful."............... this is Geoff's  experience, and perhaps most useful report back available to us.

Something to really bearing in mind, after seeing the incredible amount of hits on this thread, is that the  info presented is very likely out of date due to constant changes in the manufacturing process whereby the tyre compounds get changed. There was a big change in a few years  back due to emission laws in Germany. Cost of materials play a part too.

I am sure more changes will follow so check for latest info.

John Geldenhuys's picture
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Joined: 2011/01/31

Maybe for clarification, these are the two tyres or tread patterns i believe that is in question. 
The first is the original i believe and the 2nd the new one. Note the change in tyre code. 

K60 Scout - 150/70 B 18 M/C 70T TLK60 Scout - 150/70 B 18 M/C 70T TL

K60 Scout - 150/70 B 17 M/C 69T TLK60 Scout - 150/70 B 17 M/C 69T TL

mr.stripes's picture
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Joined: 2008/10/22

I haven't changed the tyre.

Regarding the tears & the tyre pressure, Goose was right - when I did a top up in Somerset West at a "normal" air pump it registered just below 2bar - so the pump in Clanwilliam had not pumped it up to 2.5 bar as had been requested (Atie, that's a big margin for it to not do anything!)

The torn knobblies are at exactly the same place they were after the Biedouw ride. The tyres are now at 2.5bar and there has been absolutely no further deterioration.

As for speed, water, painted lines, those K60 (old tread pattern) tyres are nothing short of marvellous. I can't say anything about the new ones - never tried them. Having said that, I've ridden old Anakees in the rain, and that is downright scary turning in a suburb, let alone lane splitting in heavy traffic in the rain..

So (to me) the idea of buying into trouble doesn't make that much sense. I like the old tread, and will probably opt for the Mitas E07 because it still has the pattern or it again IF I can find a K60 rear 17 inch old tread

Speed, grip-wise, on Sunday, 2 up, tyres at 2.5 bar, I did Franschoek Pass (can't remember its proper name) at quite some speed - it was cold and time to stop for a warm up in Fransch. There's one corner that is a more than 180 degree, and I misjudged it, with the prospect of becoming 4x4 fodder. I simply dipped further, and the tyres held without sliding out.

Last night, in the rain going to Somerset, the tyres were fine. They've done circa 10000, have been on for a year 3 months, and I'll go for it again IF I can find a K60 rear 17 inch old tread

mr.stripes

Charles Oertel's picture
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Joined: 2007/04/14

Since you are off the centreline when leaning in a corner, the solid strip in the middle of the new pattern does not enter into the cornering ability equation.  The only thing that would make a difference here is the tyre compound.

I am quite happy with my new K60.  In any event, in the rain you need to be careful, regardless of your tyres.  There are painted lines, there is diesel, and visibility is reduced.  I am quite happy to ride slower and deal with slipperyness as if I was riding offroad.  To this end, offroad riding practice is a good idea - the other day doing cones I introduced the guys to the braking turn.  This is the first step to becoming comfortable with your back sliding out and controlling a slide.

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Neil Terry's picture
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For a rocket scientist you need one as an enema!

Charles considering your comment regarding the centreline.: When I 1st glanced at the new Heidies,  something in me twitched, and the feeling was one of: "The centre is its asset in longevity, BUT what what has been lost". My feeling at the time was grip, and then I forgot all about them as life took me on a few twisties.

Feelings  can be hit or miss, often incorrect, I've make no claims that this one is correct but going by Geoff's comments, the tyre's  centre - line might well be the problem in the wet with this tyre.
On dry,clean tar: tread pattern would reduce the available grip in a given tire, as rubber grips and air does not.
On wet, clean tar: a complete change, the tread pattern's function is to evacuate as much water as possible: to "dry" the tar. One tread pattern can have greatly increased grip over and another with the same rubber compound.

The centre section continuous,'unbroken' as it is,  might well be blocking or disrupting (damming) the water.
As you would not be leaning much and thus putting a lot of your riding time on that centre section , and centrifugally it would be flung against the centre dam….????
 
Its blocking effect might well be the cause of the reduced grip in the wet again pure speculation from my part.( I completely feel it is!!)
Geoff's comments  I TOTALLY TRUST,so yes it might well be that the trade- off  for longevity, leaves us with a tyre, which is certainly less than optimum in the wet conditions, and riders need to be aware of this!!!
Geoff is clearly pointing out that this "wet tar traction" is a weakness in  the tyre's ability. I can't say any more not riding with one, but I do know I probably wouldn't stick my neck out on them in the wet… Possibly not dry either??.
Can Geoff ride: well a few years back he beat all the then Country Trax instructors in an Enduro, on Tar only the ex regional racers may slip away  a bit, and in helmet putting on speed stakes…no one!; and now on All The Passes  "THE FASTEST Kitted- Up" of all the folks,every day, over the whole week-end!!!Laughing

Salusa 65 his secret??

mr.stripes's picture
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mr.stripes wrote:

If I can source another K60 with the old tread pattern, like the one I've had on, I'll go for that, else it's the E-07 from MITAS.

I found a tyre! Replied to an ad on Wild Dog, guy selling a set of tyres, 300km done! By the sound of his ad, it was the new K60 style, but when he delivered it from Swellendam, it's a brand new, -300km, old tread K60!

Wow!

mr.stripes

Charles Oertel's picture
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The new tread pattern exists only on the big bike sizes, not the 650.  You are fussing over nothing Mr.Stripes.

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mr.stripes's picture
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charles wrote:

The new tread pattern exists only on the big bike sizes, not the 650.  You are fussing over nothing Mr.Stripes.

that's ok.. I got my tyre.. I'm happy, glad to make u smile.. it's a good thing on a Monday!

Cool

 

mr.stripes

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Joined: 2009/09/28

New 140-17 Heidenau K60 for 650 DakarNew 140-17 Heidenau K60 for 650 Dakar

BobGoode's picture
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Joined: 2010/10/07

Just had my off-road tyres swopped onto my bike by TracMac Wynberg at more than double the price they charged me less than two months ago. The front Conti TKC80 at R120 up from R100. The back Heidi K60 at R220 up from R100. Apparently they have had a lot of trouble with the Heidi bead and have decided as a Group to raise the price accordingly. Grrrrr!

Let it be.

Geoff Russell's picture
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Sherbert this is more expensive than BMW..............I smell a rat somewhere??????????

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Charles Oertel's picture
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Andrew King at Kingtek did my Heidi back for about R120.  The dealer did my Karoo front for about R240.

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Neil Terry wrote:
Sorry for the delay in this, the feedback about these Heidenau Tyres on my 1200GS, I've been a little strained time wise. Size of tyres fitted: Front - 100/90/19...(standard tyre is 110/80/19) Rear - 140/80/17...(standard tyre is 150/70/17) Velocity ratings are similar/the same i.e. no safety compromised. The cost was +- R2100 delivered in C.T. for both front and rear. Now about the tyres on the road. I have to date done about +2500km on them, on both tar and dirt, in the ratio +-60/40% On tar I've ridden up to +180kph for an extended period with sweeping bends included and experienced no front end weave...pressures: front +-2.3bar, rear +-2.5bar On the whole, as happy with them as with TKC 80's. I haven't had them in the wet, so??? They are fairly noisy and the front is quite vibey(in comparison to a dual tyre), BUT it is a knobbly tyre, and the vibrations/noise are on par/a little less than the TKC's. On dirt I rode them at +-1.6bar and was most happy. They gave a smoother ride, which I'm sure is due to the very strong side walls, and higher profile which they have.The fact that they are a bit narrower was NOT a noticeable difference to me. I chose the more difficult lines, i.e. the loosest patches, ruts, muddy sections, to try them in. All round very, very happy with their performance. This past weekend I did the West Coast Trip with them, they were fine in the sand at 1.2bar and with their side walls, on harder gravel I didn't feel the need to inflate them again. Their overall performance in sand....more then satisfying. Were I to chose between these and TKC's, for a trip, I would chose the Heidies. In fact, I would probably settle on two tyres for my bike...Bridgestone Battlewing for road use, and the Heidies for dirt. Lifespan: Vs the TKC I expect double or treble, probably 7000 or more kms on the rear, at half the price :-) :-) The only negative I had with the Heidies was that they were more than an absolute B to fit, I have never in my life struggled so to seat the bead, but with their strong sidewalls I ought never to have to break/re-seat the bead in the veld. Remember practice and skill are far more important than tyres, but these are really good for the task, with a considerable cost saving!!!!:-):-) I bought them through Bikegear tel: 041 466 6835 e-mail: info@bikegear.co.za I'll add pics soon. Rear HeidiRear Heidi Set of 2x rear ,1x frontSet of 2x rear ,1x front Another veiw rearAnother veiw rear
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Charl M Smit's picture
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Joined: 2007/06/19

BobGoode wrote:

Just had my off-road tyres swapped onto my bike by TracMac Wynberg at more than double the price they charged me less than two months ago. The front Conti TKC80 at R120 up from R100. The back Heidi K60 at R220 up from R100. Apparently they have had a lot of trouble with the Heidi bead and have decided as a Group to raise the price accordingly. Grrrrr!

It's not a group thing, I had my rear fitted FOC at TracMac Bellville when I bought the TCK for the front from them. They had no problem with fitting the Hiedi

When TM Wynberg fitted my last rear one, they fitted it back to front and then argued with me that it was right. (I told them, since I'm a weird guy I would then rather have them fit it wrong) That is when they saw the direction arrow was actually wrong.

They also charged for balancing but the wheel didn't come close to the balancing machine.

Bellville and Paardeneiland have only given me good service but Wynberg, I will rather avoid them in the future. Yell 

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zebra's picture
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I recently had a Heidi front AND rear fitted at TM Wynberg, and these are my findings:

1. friendly bunch, seem to do a reasonable job

2. also quoted me double to fit compared to 12 months back, due to the Heidi bead giving them much more work, though this was an instruction from Head Office.

3. I worked with the fitter, assisting him, and the front and rear went on EASILY, without problems.

4. I then negotiated a better rate - same rate as i had 1 year ago - R120 per tire, which I thought was reasonable.

5. They balanced the front ok, BUT COULD NOT BALANCE THE BACK TYRE DUE TO MISSING THE BMW-SIZED FITTING THAT allows them to balance it.

CHECK THEY CAN BALANCE BMW REAR BEFORE HANDING OVER BIKE!!!

6. To their credit (discredit?!), they said Belville would balance the back, no charge obviously. I just happened to be going to Bellville, so had this done, AND mentioned to Bellville management that it was 'slack' that Wynberg could not balance ANY bmw rear wheel!
7. I was lucky at TM Wynberg with one thing - I had gone to BUY a front tire, and they had taken a brand new Heidi front off a new bike whose rider wanted TKC, and donated it (as new) to the fitter. They sold it to me for R250, and it was as new, no defects, and only needed 0.5 balance weight added. I was a happy camper!Smile

In conclusion, I would not go back if they cannot balance any BMW's rear wheel, and will tomorrow ring H.O. and tell them of the business they stand to lose..

Cheers

 

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